Welcome to the final episode of our podcast Series 1 with John Rudaizky! In this conversation we talk about authenticity, purpose and creativity.

John is a Partner and Global Brand & Marketing Leader for EY. Prior to this, his career spans world class creative agencies, with his own entrepreneurial venture, having set up his own advertising, PR and digital agency. He’s also an early stage startup advisor and investor.

You can find John on LinkedIn.

  Listen to the S1 E11 ‘Nurturing Creativity’ with John Rudaizky


  

  

You will learn these 3 lessons from John:

  • Authenticity is the path to connection
  • Purpose comes before profit
  • Why creativity is a magical science

This podcast was recorded in the autumn of 2021.


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The music used in this podcast was composed for Breakthrough Global and has been used on our Programmes throughout the years
Hosts: Dr Bart Sayle, CEO and Founder of Breakthrough Global and Zannah Ryabchuk, Managing Director at Breakthrough Global
Production: Julia Soltysova at Breakthrough Global and Robin Leeburn at Fairly Media


Transcript of the episode

Zannah Ryabchuk

Hello and welcome to the very last episode of Series 1 of our podcast 3 Lessons From Breakthrough Leaders. I’m Zannah Ryabchuk MD at Breakthrough Global.

Dr. Bart Sayle

And I’m Dr. Bart Sayle Breakthrough CEO and founder. We’ve spent 30 years developing the Breakthrough Methodology to transform companies who want to reach their highest level.

Zannah Ryabchuk

And in this podcast, we’ll get to the heart of that transformation, meeting leaders and creative talents to share three lessons that we guarantee will help you and your companies to unleash your potential. And Bart and I will take a moment to analyse the key takeaways and opportunities for Breakthrough thinking.

Dr. Bart Sayle

In today’s episode, we’ll learn from John Rudaizky. John is partner and global brand and marketing leader for EY. Prior to this, his career spans world class creative agencies, with his own entrepreneurial venture, having set up his own advertising, PR and digital agency. He’s also an early stage startup advisor and investor.

Zannah Ryabchuk

And today we’ll hear these three lessons from John. Authenticity is the path to connection.

John Rudaizky

You could have the most seductive advertising campaign on the planet. If someone walks into the shop, and they’re hugely disappointed, either by the service or the product doesn’t work or, etc. Any sense of authenticity is completely undermine.

Zannah Ryabchuk

Purpose comes before profit.

John Rudaizky

Sustainability is everybody’s business. You know, increasingly, I think you’ll see more partnerships, people coming together to affect the wider societal issues and contribution business can make.

Zannah Ryabchuk

Why creativity is a magical science.

John Rudaizky

The biggest barrier to nurturing creative ideas is the interactions between each other. When you see an idea, that you don’t know how to respond. And to this day, I have on every newsroom, what inspires you what’s missing? What doesn’t work yet. And what’s interesting is it gets people to think about the positive, before you get into the negative, that is the way to nurture creativity.

Bart Sayle

Lesson one, who you are, what do you do? Well told.

John Rudaizky

I think the nature of brands in the wake of the if you like, the consumer contract has definitely evolved over time. And I think, you know, ultimately, many of us in sort of, you know, from a marketing point of view, would start to think about, you know, ultimately today, the consumer owns your brand. You know, whether it’s through the feedback, the likes the reviews system, you know, ultimately the, you know, the customer can sort of determine the way your brand lands. Probably the biggest shift, I think, you know, I’ve heard a lot of discussion and you know, all sorts of, you know, the communities that I happen to exist in marketing is authenticity. I think, because nothing can be hidden anymore at a brand level, the most important thing is to be authentic to who you are. And that’s probably the way in managing that. From an execution point of view, you’ve got different ways of doing it whether to, you know, using influences today as a way of relating one to one at the customer level. You know, it used to be a brand talking from the corporate office to the customer. Now, you are talking to the customer through a variety of forums direct or indirect. But I think for me at the heart is there’s a shift and imperative that your brand is reflected authentically to the marketplace. And I think that’s a reflection that the customer is more savvy, the customer can understand what’s true, what’s not true, and they can check it up in an instant. Anyway.

Dr. Bart Sayle

That’s great, John. So authenticity. Again, it’s, it’s, it’s a word that I call a fat word. And a fat word is something that has so many different meanings, and can be acted on in very different ways. So with our clients, they all talk authenticity. Yeah. And they often mean different things.

John Rudaizky

So Bart I like your re-badging as a as a fat word, and I’ve not thought about it in that context. And it probably can mean different things, different people. I think in the context of brands, I would say first and foremost, a brand ultimately is a fraction of what a brand is and what a brand does, and then says it does. So when you’re communicating about about your brand, of course, you will tell your best story of course you will give of your best narrative around who you are, what you do, but in the end, what you do has to be true. And you know, the other way of maybe explaining that is you could have the most seductive advertising campaign on the planet. If someone walks into the shop, and is hugely disappointed either by the service or the product doesn’t work, etc, any sense of authenticity is completely undermined. What you do, well told is how to get authenticity.

Dr. Bart Sayle

What John says about authenticity is so true. In companies, people think about the brand, they think about the product, they think about the consumer. What’s vital is also to think about the people behind the brand. That’s where authenticity starts. When I started Breakthrough, I started working on brands. And one thing we knew was that to transform a brand, you need to start by transforming the people behind the brand. We had a concept, we called it, the Zen of Branding, while it’s inside the brand is outside the brand, what’s outside the brand is inside the brand. If anything, this is more true today than it was then. And now lesson two, turning rhetoric into reality.

Zannah Ryabchuk

I think when it comes to purpose, we tend to have a challenge when we walk into some buildings, which is that we have values and purpose plastered in very beautiful graphics on the walls often, and not being lived and walked in. I suppose that comes back to authenticity point, John. So what is this gap? How are companies getting this so wrong? And what can you know, organisations like EY, who are really kind of moving this bar forward, give them as advice on what they should be doing differently, because there’s often a huge gap.

John Rudaizky

You know, ultimately, purpose, everyone’s talking about purpose. Not everyone is doing purpose. And I think it’s the doing words, the active word, right. I think, you know, if I think about everything I’ve ever learned from Breakthrough, you know, you can have all the intent in the world, you’ve then got to put some kind of methodology and action behind it, you know, and hold people to account. That’s, I hope, Bart one of the lessons I’ve learnt from you, I often, quote, intent or methodology, which is more important? So in the context of this conversation, I’d say, a company without a purpose definitely won’t get there. So I think, you know, I would say, for those companies that at least got a plaster on the wall, that’s a good start, because intent is really important. So I think it’s an important step, and I wouldn’t under underestimate the power of simply putting it on the walls. Having said that, you then need to build actions around that. And I think that’s where I think the sort of more enlightened companies, the world, and certainly, you know, we have worked with them, changing the metrics of success are important. So you know, people are moving to a wider set of metrics around it, because if you put metrics on the board, then you deliver it. I think there’s, again, different organisations will have different metrics of delivering their purpose, but you know, internal, internal staff engagement, how you treat them, how you train them, how you coach, your own staff is one metric. How you impact society around you as another metric. So I think, I think for each organisation, it’s around setting up its clear purpose, and then building programmes around activating that purpose. You know, we did a pain from rehtoric, to reality. And I think that’s where you have to get into being granular around it. So I think, yes, start with clustering it, but it needs to be followed up by, you know, clear action, and clear metrics.

Dr. Bart Sayle

I think adding to that, that, again, in this sort of evolution of things like purpose within the business world, what we’ve seen is it’s now everybody in the organisation that owns that purpose. It used to just be the C level or, you know, the top leadership. But now it’s everybody. And also you get this feedback effect, that if the purpose isn’t appealing or inspiring, or compelling enough, then people just do not want to work for that company anymore. And they feel free to go.

John Rudaizky

Absolutely. Bart we know from everything we do, our purpose is one of the primary reasons people want to join us. And increasingly, there’s a lot of data around actually all generations, frankly, but particularly next generation who are looking to join an organisation or with a purpose that they want to be part of a higher purpose around that. So I think you’re 100% Right. It’s owned by all the organisation. I also sometimes think, you know, it’s sort of some of the great companies it used to be called mission and there are some great companies that have contributed to society for hundreds of years. And there are many global private companies that have had purpose driven activations, where they’ve impacted society, you know, they, you know, transform villages around them. So I think, I think the exciting thing is, it’s now a matter of course, for a organisation today to bake it in, and not just thinking about profit. But equally, it’s also been around for many years, and some of the greatest companies have proven that purpose what used to be called mission leads to success.

Dr. Bart Sayle

It used to be vision, mission, values. Absolutely, exactly. As you said, there’s been companies doing this for years, and years and years. And one of the key pieces of marketing around purpose is the guy that said, the importance of why.

John Rudaizky

Simon Sinek.

Dr. Bart Sayle

That’s right. And, so it was, it was great marketing. And, and all of a sudden, you know, we had a new conversation about what purpose is and so on, and companies could then build into that.

John Rudaizky

There has been a movement around purpose, and it’s a net positive impact to the world. You know, I’ve been lucky enough to go to quite a few Davos’s, where, you know, we’ve held our own sessions with, you know, huge innovators in the world, big global leaders, investors. And the conversation of purpose has shifted, and boardrooms are all discussing it, which means change is on the way because ultimately, the best purposes have a total wide stakeholder impact. And that’s a great place to be, again, I’d be lucky, coming back from Cop26. in Glasgow, what was amazing is seeing so many business leaders there in many times for the first time, because businesses realise this is a fundamental need. It’s not just down to government, it’s also up to business. Now to do its part, these issues are real and change and change is happening around us.

Zannah Ryabchuk

Yeah, it’s absolutely what we’re seeing as well, John, so five years ago, even three years ago, we’d started transformation project, and, you know, something that was gonna take multiple years, and some brave person at the back of the strategy was read out, would put up their hands and say what about sustainability, and, whoever was presenting would say, we’ll come to that later, right now, we’ve got a lot to be getting on with for the next three years, you know, we can’t, we can’t be doing that as well. And now every single organisation that we’re working with, it’s not just that it’s sort of a nice to have, or it’s a pillar somewhere, it is a fundamental. If there’s only three things they’re focusing on for the next five years one of them is sustainability, with every single person that we’re working with, and the shift in mindset around that. And the intentionality around that is absolutely massive, because people realise it’s going to affect them and their children now, and I think that’s really something that’s driving on a fundamental human level.

John Rudaizky

Absolutely. And, you know, again, if I look at our own approach to sustainability, not only is what we do ourselves, but we talk about value lead sustainability, you know, how do organisations protect the value, but also create new value. And I think that’s where the focus is going, actually, in the future, unless you get behind it, you won’t create the value in the world that you that you need to. And so you know, very much we talked about. Sustainability is everybody’s business, you know, we know there is an ecosystem. And again, that’s another thing from a brand point of view, from a business point of view. We’re all in a wider ecosystem, and therefore, to address world issues, like sustainability, we have to collaborate like never before. And so that’s again, you know, it’s a big shift in the way brands and businesses used to market as individuals to now saying, how do we collaborate to affect change in a wider ecosystem? Increasingly, I think you’ll see more partnerships, people coming together, to join up to affect the wider societal issues and contribution business can make to the world.

Dr. Bart Sayle

John’s talking incredibly strategically here. From his experience at Davos, and working with global leaders. At the start of 2022, Larry Fink, the chief executive of BlackRock, the world’s biggest investment fund manager, in his annual letter to CEOs said that businesses as well as cities and countries that do not plan for a carbon free future risk being left behind. He says that sustainability and climate policies should not be about politics, or a social or ideological agenda. It’s really about good business and long term returns, as well as everything else.

Zannah Ryabchuk

On to our next lesson.

Dr. Bart Sayle

Lesson three, the Ideas Builder.

John Rudaizky

You can have all the platforms on a planet, you can have all the data on the planet. But when it comes to marketing, and brands, creativity is also a leap that no computer has been able to do. I’ve asked us, you know, we’ve created the better questions campaign, and I’ve been I’m actually working on a major study around artificial intelligence. But you know, to this day, AI cannot ask a question, because it’s not smart enough yet, right. And so I think, I think somewhere between using technology, as a facilitator of a connection facilitator augmentor, that accelerator, there’s lots of huge benefits, that we can use technology for that are creating unimaginable ways to connect with people. However, the experience that you create, the story you put out the piece of content is the sticky stuff. I had a session last week with a guy called Rory Sutherland, who’s the, vice chairman at Ogilvy, which is one of the top agencies and it was a fascinating one. And he’s written a brilliant book called: The Alchemy, The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don’t Make Sense. But what was amazing is he was talking about data and the fallacy of following the data. Because you can draw very radical, wrong interpretations around data. And that’s not always, you know, what gets measured, he explained is not always what gets done. Sometimes, because you look, you’re getting done the metric, as opposed to what you should be doing, which is the magic. So there’s a whole separate thing, but I think somewhere between understanding what’s a metric, metrocable, and understanding how to create something new that’s never been thought of before, is where I think the tension in marketing today is. There’s a bit of a kind of divide between people who think everything is data based. And those people who think it’s everything magic based in the end, it’s about both.

Dr. Bart Sayle

You just touched on. One of the things I’ve always known you to be passionate about, and that’s creativity, how do you nurture creativity in your organisation?

John Rudaizky

First and foremost, I think before you nurture creativity, you want to attract people who love creativity, and are experiencing creativity not so you can’t learn it. And that’s part of it. But I think fundamentally, you know, it’s best to start with people who love that part of the business. I think then, you know, I don’t think it’s dissimilar too many different things. It’s about setting an ambitious bar, about what creativity could do. It’s about creating processes. You know, one of the processes that we created is something called newsroom, which is, you know, we meet three, three times a week, where different parts of the business bring ideas to a group of cross functional specialists, we’ve got, you know, team, because we’re all we’ve all think differently about ideas to then you’ve got to think in different media today. So it is more of a team sport, I’d say, than ever before. Today’s creativity has to be distributed in so many different ways that you need different teams of people thinking about ideas. And then, you know, there’s no doubt learning, coaching is an essential part of it. I think, you know, I do encourage people to get out of the office, I think a lot of the time people get quite insular. I think you got to stay hungry and refuel your mind. And then I think the one thing I would say about nurturing creativity, and this is not just because you’re interviewing me, Bart but I think to this day, the best Power tool is what I learned from you 20 years ago. Which is your, I don’t know what you call it, but I’ve rebranded it, the Ideas Builder framework. So might be you’ve got a better one. But the biggest barrier to nurturing creative ideas is the interactions between each other. When you see an idea you don’t know how to respond. And to this day, I have on every newsroom, what inspires you what’s missing? What doesn’t work yet. And I have to say that is something that I have carried from from you. And what’s interesting is it gets people to think about the positive before you get into the negative or they get the negative but then they have to fill in that first thing and always say what inspires you even if it’s thanks for coming to work today? Like get someone in a positive mood for trying? And I’m guilty myself of sometimes going what I don’t like to cut the time and I regret that often. Anyway, that is the way to nurture creativity. Get you in and your team to help frame more empowering conversations to nurture creativity.

Dr. Bart Sayle

Oh, that’s wonderful. That’s wonderful. Actually, it’s interesting because the what inspires you. In that format that I used with you 20 years ago? That was often the hardest question for people that easily go into all what works and what’s not working. And what’s possible. And they sort of short change the what inspires you.

John Rudaizky

That is the essential because often, the little bit that inspires could be the idea that leads to something and I think I read somewhere on David Lynch said something like, ideas are like catching fish. And I think the bit that’s inspiring is the bit that you have to get clear on how to catch the fish in the middle of stuff that might not be working. You know, often ideas executed badly to start with, the colour of a visual might be completely wrong, and people cannot get past the colour of the visual to spot the fact that there’s a good idea behind it. And then I think there’s confidence Bart. I think, you know, maybe over the years, people don’t like saying what inspires because they are afraid that people might disagree with them. And I think that’s the other part of I think, ideas is encouraging people to disagree, and not always agree with each other to start with, and have different opinions.

Dr. Bart Sayle

I think you’re onto something there definitely. And I think another thing related to that. As you’ve been talking, John, I’ve been thinking that in that set of questions, which you call the Idea Builder. I like that name, actually. And we call the Feedback Framework.

John Rudaizky

That’s right.

Dr. Bart Sayle

We’ve been guilty of actually moving the inspiration part out of it, and having it more of a what’s working, what’s not working, etc. But now I’ve thought about that question. Again. That question is so much more about you than then the other questions?

John Rudaizky

Definitely, you know, most people are trained to critique not to build. You know, I often one of the other things I spend a lot of time is, which I think is essential for business is connecting different strands to create new ideas, and that in some ways, that’s what great creative people do. They just connect thoughts. I’m lucky in my business, I’ve never professed to be a great copywriter or art director. And so I’m in awe of the creative geniuses that I’ve worked with. But what I do believe I knows how to spark that. And that’s where I think, you know, the ideas start off kind of fragile. But if you get the right teams around it, you can build and nurture and take a kernel of a thought into something that’s amazing at the end of it.

Zannah Ryabchuk

Listening to John talk about creativity and inspiration is infectious. It gets you feeling creative and inspired. Because inspiration is the fuel that feeds our motivation. And our intentionality it gives us and our teams the energy to keep going when things get tough. So spend more time connecting with the things that inspire you because it will repay huge dividends as an investment. As leaders, as family members, as friends, we owe it to ourselves and those around us to be the most inspired version of ourselves. I know that I certainly want to be around inspired people. And I owe it to them to be the most inspired version of myself to give them that energy. So take a moment now and ask yourself, what inspires you in life? Is it nature family, inspirational people, those who overcome adversity? And then ask yourself what inspires you about where you are in your life right now?

Zannah Ryabchuk

All right, let’s move on to the hot seat questions.

John Rudaizky

What those were the hot seats.

Zannah Ryabchuk

John, this is the part of the show where we ask you your hotseat questions. Are you ready?

John Rudaizky

I’m ready. I’m ready.

Zannah Ryabchuk

Excellent. Sizzling John sizzling. Alright what’s the most exciting thing you’ve ever done?

John Rudaizky

That I can say publicly?

Zannah Ryabchuk

Exactly.

John Rudaizky

The one that I always hold on to is my snowboarding off piece where I had to walk up a hill stand desperately holding myself and the snowboard instructor saying unless you actually stand up, you will cause an avalanche and kill yourself and standing up at the top of a precipice and just having to go down was probably to this day, the most exciting moment of my life. So I picked that one obviously, you know, the other exciting thing is having children. But that’s it’s a, it’s a different experience from snowboarding, that’s for sure.

Zannah Ryabchuk

Well, there may be some similarities. What brings you energy and motivation in everyday life?

John Rudaizky

Again, you know, just to share, I suppose one of the things that I shifted, and again Bart, if I may, thank you in the middle of COVID, lockdown, we all needed to reach out to people say help what I do, and I think you sent me on this programme. It was an Nancy Robbins, one of these online things. And one of the biggest changes is getting up at six o’clock, not waking up looking at my emails and doing some exercise and some meditation in the morning. I think actually not looking at emails until you’re ready and sorted your day out in your head is probably the best thing that allows me to be inspired for the rest of the day. If I look at emails, it tends to go badly. From there on in.

Zannah Ryabchuk

This is very good advice. Very good advice. Indeed. I couldn’t agree more. This is what I keep keep saying to my husband, John, but he won’t he won’t listen. Finish this sentence success is.

John Rudaizky

Worth striving for but you might not know it when you get it.

Zannah Ryabchuk

Thank you so much. And in case our listeners wants to get in touch with you or find out more. What’s the best way for them to do that? Is that through social media?

John Rudaizky

I think LinkedIn is probably the best. If, you know by all means if they reach out to you happy for you to flip on anything and any relevant connections would be great. So yeah, absolutely.

Zannah Ryabchuk

Excellent. Thank you so much, John. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Thank you very, very much.

Dr. Bart Sayle

John. It’s been fantastic as I knew it would.

John Rudaizky

Thanks, Bart.

Zannah Ryabchuk

Thank you so much for joining us for today’s episode. It’s the last episode in series one. We’ll start recording series two this summer. So stay tuned. And remember to subscribe to us. You can reach out to us at Breakthrough Global on LinkedIn or Facebook, via Twitter at Radiant Clarity, or Instagram at Global Breakthrough.

Dr. Bart Sayle

And we’d love to hear your feedback and your own leadership stories. We’d also love for you to share this episode on your own social media and review and rate this podcast on your player of choice as we want to spread these transformative lessons as wide as possible.

Zannah Ryabchuk

And finally a huge thanks to our production team, Julia Soltysova at Breakthrough Global and Robin Leeburn of Fairly Media and of course, thank you for listening.